Post Malone on Creativity, Vulnerability & Finding Peace
Post Malone：创意、脆弱与寻找内心的平静
3 hours and 49 minutes on mushrooms, music as magic, why fear makes you more alive, and how a 25-year-old with three albums figured out that the best ideas come when you stop trying.
近四个小时的播客里，Post Malone 在迷幻蘑菇的余韵中，聊了音乐即魔法、恐惧如何让人更清醒、以及为什么最好的创意来自放手而不是掌控。
This Conversation Started with a Roblox Death Sound
这场对话始于《Roblox》的死亡音效
Post Malone hasn't slept. He's been doing mushrooms. Joe Rogan hands him a drink and they start rolling.
Post Malone 没睡觉，刚嗑了迷幻蘑菇。Joe Rogan 递给他一杯酒，直播就开始了。
Within five minutes, Post Malone is describing — with total sincerity — how he and his producer spent two hours making a Coachella DJ set built entirely around the Roblox death sound. You know, the one that plays when your blocky avatar dies. He sampled it. They built a "four to the floor kick drum" around it. He calls it the time of his life.
不到五分钟，Post Malone 就一脸认真地讲述他和制作人花了两个小时做了一套 Coachella DJ set——完全围绕《Roblox》里角色死亡时的音效。就是那种你的方块小人在游戏里挂掉时播放的"咔——"一声。他采样了这个声音，配上"四拍底的底鼓"，做了一整场。他说那是他人生中最快乐的时刻。
This is not a normal interview. This is the Joe Rogan Experience #1516 — filmed in the summer of 2020, with Post Malone at 25, three albums deep, living in Utah, and arriving with mushrooms still running through his system. Over the next three hours and 49 minutes, the conversation pinballs from creativity to aliens to horror movies to microchips to the NFL. But beneath the chaos, Post Malone is articulating something surprisingly coherent: a philosophy about where ideas come from, why vulnerability is a tool, and how he built a life that lets the music flow.
这不是一次正常的访谈。这是 Joe Rogan 体验第 1516 期——2020 年夏天录制，Post Malone 25 岁，三张专辑在手，住在犹他州，带着体内的迷幻蘑菇走进录音室。在接下来的三小时四十九分钟里，话题从创造力跳到外星人，再到恐怖电影、芯片植入、NFL。但混乱之下，Post Malone 说出了一个出奇一致的东西：一种关于创意从何而来、为什么脆弱是一种工具、以及如何构建一个让音乐自然流动的生活的哲学。
Creativity Is an Accident
创意就是一场意外
The VIP Bracelet
VIP手环
Post Malone describes mushrooms as "a hall pass to this other place — like you get like a VIP bracelet." You can't get into the room normally. But with the right conditions, the door opens. It's not about being high for its own sake. It's about access — getting past the gatekeeper in your own head that keeps the weird ideas locked away.
Post Malone 把迷幻蘑菇形容为"通往另一个世界的大门——就像拿到 VIP 手环"。平时你进不去那个房间。但在合适的条件下，门会打开。不是为了嗨而嗨，而是为了访问——越过你脑海中那个把奇怪想法锁在门外的守门人。
"All My Ideas Are Kind of Like Mistakes"
"我的所有想法都像是错误"
"Today I'm gonna write Congratulations," says Post Malone. "You never wake up and say that." The hit songs arrive sideways — eight Bud Lights, a tiny bit of shrooms, and then the melody just appears. He doesn't claim to understand it. "It is an accident. It is just a spur-of-the-moment type deal." The accidental nature of creation is the point. Control is the enemy.
"今天我决定写一首《Congratulations》，"Post Malone 说。"你从来不会一觉醒来就这么说。"热门歌曲是从侧面溜进来的——八瓶百威啤酒，一点点迷幻蘑菇，然后旋律就出来了。他不假装理解。"这就是一个意外，就是一个突发的瞬间。"创造的偶然性才是重点。控制是敌人。
Ideas Aren't Yours
想法不是你的
Rogan and Post Malone circle a question neither can answer: where do ideas actually come from? "You're interacting with something," Rogan says. "They come from nowhere," Post Malone agrees. "Like where'd that come from? What is this?" They land on the most honest answer possible: nobody knows. Creativity comes from "the weirdest part of your brain that no one knows how to — you can't even measure it."
Rogan 和 Post Malone 绕着一个两人都答不上来的问题兜圈：想法到底从哪儿来？"你在和某种东西互动，"Rogan 说。"它们不知从哪里冒出来的，"Post Malone 赞同。"就像——那玩意儿哪来的？这是什么？"他们得出的答案是最诚实的：没人知道。创造力来自"你大脑里最奇怪的那个部分，没人知道怎么——你根本没法测量它"。
Music Is Alchemy
音乐是炼金术
"A great song will hurt you." Post Malone says it flat, like it's obvious. "You're giving a person a drug — there's a dopamine rush, you get goosebumps." When you're on stage and 15,000 people are vibrating to something you made, it's, in Rogan's words, "fucking magical." And the wildest part? "If you didn't know it existed, you would never believe someone could do it. Imagine a world with no music — just animals."
"一首好歌会伤害你。"Post Malone 说得平淡，像是理所应当。"你在给人喂一种药——有多巴胺冲上来，你会起鸡皮疙瘩。"当你站在台上，15000 人跟着你做出来的东西一起摇摆——借用 Rogan 的话，"简直是魔法"。最疯狂的是？"如果你不知道它的存在，你绝对不会相信有人能做到。想象一个没有音乐的世界——只有动物。"
Vulnerability as Strength
脆弱即力量
"I'm an Anxious Person"
"我是个焦虑的人"
Post Malone corrects Rogan mid-sentence. Rogan says he's not an anxious person. Post Malone: "I'm an anxious person." It's not a confession — it's a stated fact, delivered casually. This is who he is, and he's made peace with it. The anxiety isn't something to fix. It's something to work with.
Post Malone 在 Rogan 说到一半时纠正他。Rogan 说他不是一个焦虑的人。Post Malone："我是一个焦虑的人。"这不是坦白，而是一个从容陈述的事实。他就是这样的，而且他接受了。焦虑不是需要修复的东西，而是需要合作的东西。
Weed as a Tool
大麻作为一种工具
"Weed makes you vulnerable," Post Malone says, "and I think for someone like me, that's a good thing." Most people spend their lives building walls against vulnerability. Post Malone uses substances to take the walls down on purpose. It's counterintuitive: the thing that makes you feel exposed is also the thing that lets you create. Vulnerability isn't weakness — it's access.
"大麻让你脆弱，"Post Malone 说，"对我这样的人来说，这是一件好事。"大多数人花一辈子筑墙抵御脆弱。Post Malone 却故意用药物把墙推倒。这很反常：让你感到暴露的东西，恰恰也是让你创造的东西。脆弱不是弱点——它是通道。
"The Fear Actually Makes Me More Appreciative"
"恐惧反而让我更感恩"
Here's the line that ties it all together. Post Malone thinks about death, the temporary nature of everything, the reality that it all ends — and instead of depressing him, it sharpens him. "Looking at all the vulnerabilities, the reality of life and the temporary nature of it — that makes me more appreciative. The fear actually makes me more appreciative." This is not toxic positivity. He's not pretending to be fearless. He's saying fear, when you sit with it, becomes gratitude.
这是那条串联一切的线。Post Malone 思考死亡、一切的短暂性、所有事物终将结束的事实——这不是让他消沉，而是让他更清醒。"看着所有的脆弱，生命的现实和它的短暂性——这让我更感恩。恐惧反而让我更感恩。"这不是有毒的积极主义。他不是在假装无畏。他是说，当你真正和恐惧坐在一起，它会变成感恩。
Getting Out of Your Own Way
不要挡自己的路
If you get in your own way, "you have less bandwidth for the ideas." The key to creativity isn't effort — it's surrender. Less control, not more. "When they come to you, it feels like they're not even yours." The creative act is less about making something happen and more about letting something through. Post Malone's entire approach — the substances, the Utah isolation, the openness — is built around removing obstacles between him and whatever is on the other side of the VIP door.
如果你挡了自己的路，"你能用来接收想法的带宽就会变少"。创造力的关键不是努力，而是放手。少控制，不是多控制。"当它们来到你身边时，感觉它们根本不是你的。"创造行为不在于让事情发生，而在于让东西通过。Post Malone 的整个方法论——迷幻蘑菇、犹他州的隐居、开放的心态——都是建立在清除他自身与 VIP 门那边任何东西之间的障碍之上。
Finding Utah
找到犹他
Post Malone was born in Syracuse, raised in Dallas, and moved to LA at 18. LA was supposed to be the dream. Instead, it was noise — "something going on 24/7," a constant pressure to be somewhere, do something, show up. He couldn't focus. "I couldn't do LA."
Post Malone 出生在锡拉丘兹，在达拉斯长大，18 岁搬到洛杉矶。洛杉矶本应是梦想之地。实际却是噪音——"一天 24 小时不停，总有什么在发生"，持续的压力：去某个地方、做某件事、现身。他无法专注。"洛杉矶我待不了。"
Then he played a show in Utah. Five thousand tickets sold. Seventeen thousand people showed up. They moved the whole thing outside — onto the salt flats. Post Malone stood there, 17,000 people screaming, salt stretching to the horizon in every direction, and thought: "If this isn't a sign from God — or the aliens — then I don't know what is."
然后他去犹他演出一场。票卖了五千张。现场来了一万七千人。他们把整场演出搬到室外——盐滩上。Post Malone 站在那里，17000 人在尖叫，盐滩向四面八方延伸到地平线，他想："如果这不是上帝——或外星人——给我的信号，那我真不知道什么才是。"
He opened Zillow on his phone. Found a house. Fixed it up. Moved in.
他掏出手机打开 Zillow。找到一间房子。修好它。搬了进去。
Two years later, he's still there. Waking up to the mountains. Watching the sun set at 10 p.m. in the summer. The Mormons, he says, are "so nice." Utah isn't what people think — "it's almost like Utah is a secret, because everybody's scared of the Mormons, so they don't go there." But when you get there, "Jesus Christ, it's beautiful."
两年后，他还在那里。醒来面对群山。夏天看太阳晚上十点才落山。摩门教徒，他说，"特别好"。犹他不是人们想象的那样——"犹他几乎像个秘密，因为大家都怕摩门教徒，所以不去。"但到了那里才发现，"我的天，太美了。"
The move was practical, not spiritual. He needed peace to make music. Utah gave him that. No rooftop pool parties. No podcast obligations at 2 p.m. on a Tuesday. Just the mountains, his studio, and space for the accidents to happen.
搬家是实际的，不是精神层面的。他需要宁静来做音乐。犹他给了他。没有屋顶泳池派对。没有周二下午两点的播客邀约。只有群山、他的录音室、以及让意外发生的空间。
The Scattered Mind
散漫的好奇心
Aliens Are Real
外星人是真的
Post Malone isn't joking about aliens. "Aliens are real. I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm like 99.99% convinced." He's been to Skinwalker Ranch. Nothing happened — "we went there for a TV show, we're like, 'Come on, aliens — where are you, you fucks?'" — but the belief remains. There's something out there. The curiosity is the point.
Post Malone 对外星人不是在开玩笑。"外星人是真的。我不是百分之百确定，但 99.99% 确定。"他去过皮行者牧场。什么也没发生——"我们是为了上电视去的，说'来吧，外星人——你们这帮混蛋在哪呢？'"——但信念还在。那里有东西。好奇心就是重点。
Horror Movies as Joy
恐怖片是一种快乐
"I'm a dirty little fucker — I love horror movies." Post Malone and Rogan bond over Mama, Let the Right One In, ghost movies. They riff on what's scarier: creepy kids or creepy mothers. The conversation drifts into genuinely wondering what it would be like to encounter a ghost — an old man with no legs, floating in the woods while you walk your dog. Horror, for Post Malone, isn't something to avoid. It's something to lean into.
"我他妈就是个变态——我超爱恐怖片。"Post Malone 和 Rogan 围绕《妈妈》《生人勿近》和各种鬼片展开讨论。他们即兴探讨哪种更恐怖：诡异的孩子们还是诡异的母亲（两者都有时加倍恐怖）。对话漂移到真心好奇撞见鬼会是什么感觉——一个没有腿的老头，浮在树林里，而你在遛狗。恐怖对 Post Malone 来说不是要回避的东西，而是要拥抱的东西。
Murder Hornets and Orc Birthing Pits
杀人蜂与兽人产坑
Rogan shows Post Malone footage of murder hornets decapitating honeybees. "It's horrific," Post Malone says — and he means it with genuine fascination. They pivot to CRISPR genetic engineering, whether UFC fighters are "a new species," and then somehow arrive at orc birthing pits from Lord of the Rings. "You've never seen Saruman?" Post Malone asks, genuinely amazed. This is how his mind works: one thing leads to another, and another, all interesting.
Rogan 给 Post Malone 看杀人蜂砍掉蜜蜂脑袋的视频。"太恐怖了，"Post Malone 说——语气里全是真实的着迷。他们转向 CRISPR 基因编辑、UFC 拳手是不是"一个新物种"，然后不知怎么地跑到了《指环王》里的兽人产坑。"你都没看过萨鲁曼那段？"Post Malone 真诚震惊。这就是他的大脑运作方式：一件事引出另一件，再引出另一件——每一件都很有意思。
Respect for Danger
对危险的尊重
The Zeke Elliott Moment
Zeke Elliott 的瞬间
Post Malone watches Ezekiel Elliott take a hit that would shatter a normal person, then get right up and do it again. The respect is genuine: "Are you okay? And then he gets right up and does it again." "20 miles an hour, they're going so fast, they're so strong, and they're running at you and they're running and BOOM." There's raw awe in his voice — admiration for people who willingly step into the path of force.
Post Malone 看着 Ezekiel Elliott 承受了一记足以让普通人碎裂的撞击，然后立刻爬起来又继续。这种尊重是真实的："你还好吧？然后他直接就起来了，又接着干。""他们的速度有 30 公里每小時，那么快，那么强壮，向你冲过来，你也冲过去——BOOM。"他的声音里有赤裸的敬畏——对那些自愿走入力量碰撞路径的人的崇拜。
Fighting Is Different
格斗不一样
"In fighting, there's a person in front of you, and they're trying to do stuff to you, and you should know how to avoid it." Post Malone draws a distinction between football and combat sports. In fighting, the danger is personal — you can see it coming and do something about it. In football, the danger is structural. "Dudes running at each other at 20 miles an hour — you're gonna get hit." There's something purer about combat, something that makes more sense to him.
"在格斗中，你面前有一个人，他在试图对你做什么，你应该知道怎么躲。"Post Malone 区分了橄榄球和格斗运动。在格斗中，危险是个人化的——你可以看见它来，并且采取应对。在橄榄球中，危险是结构性的。"大个子们以 30 公里每小時彼此冲撞——你肯定会被撞到。"格斗中有某种更纯粹的东西，某种更符合他直觉的东西。
Fix the Brains
修好大脑
"I wish it didn't fuck people's brains up as much," Post Malone says about football. It's not naive — he knows better helmets won't fix it. "I just hope they figure out a way to fix brains." The closing beat of this section isn't about the glory of contact sports. It's about the cost. Post Malone can admire the danger while still hoping we find a way to soften the damage it leaves behind.
"我希望它对人们大脑的伤害不要那么大，"Post Malone 谈到橄榄球时说。这不是天真——他知道更好的头盔解决不了问题。"我只希望他们能找到修复大脑的方法。"这一段的收尾不在身体对抗运动的荣耀，而在于代价。Post Malone 可以同时敬佩危险，也还希望我们能找到减轻它留下伤害的方法。
"What's an idea from? Nobody knows."
"一个想法到底是从哪来的？没人知道。"
— Post Malone, JRE #1516
— Post Malone，JRE #1516
Post Malone built a life designed to let creativity happen. Moved to Utah. Made himself vulnerable on purpose. Stopped trying to control where the ideas came from. And still, after hours of talking about it, the central mystery remains unanswered: where do the ideas actually come from?
Post Malone 构建了一个旨在让创造力发生的生活。搬到犹他。故意让自己变得脆弱。停止控制创意的来源。而三小时聊完之后，核心的谜团依然没有答案：想法到底从哪来？
Not his brain. Not the mushrooms. Not the Bud Lights. Something else — something that feels like a gift from somewhere no one can name.
不是他的大脑。不是迷幻蘑菇。不是百威啤酒。别的什么东西——某种像礼物一样降临、却没人能说出处的东西。
Maybe the most honest creative philosophy anyone has ever given in a three-hour podcast interview is this: the best thing you can do to make something great is get out of the way and let it arrive.
也许，三小时播客访谈中给出的最诚实的创作哲学就是：做出好东西的最好方法，就是别挡路，让它自己来。